"Can drop me off at Trader Joe's?," I asked.
"Sure, are you going to the mall after? Should I pick you up there later?" he asked.
"No, I will be at the University of Vermont. Can you pick me up there?"
"Sure, but it will be a different driver. What are you doing over there?"
"Well, I am going to table for Citizens Climate Lobby." I didn't add that we were tabling because it was the press event for the release of the Vermont Climate Assessment report. I was trying to keep it simple.
"What's that? What do you do?" he asked.
So I started talking about the carbon fee and dividend. It was very quickly clear that I was talking with a climate change denier--a very pleasant denier, but a denier none the less.
"I just don't think we should tax corporations." He answered. "Oil and gas have done so much for us we can't punish them for that. I just hate taxing corporations. If we tax corporations they will get sick of us and they will go away. Just look at IBM. Corporations are the world!"
That seemed like a fear-based comment to me after thinking about it. Yes, corporations make a lot of stuff happen in our world, but that shouldn't mean that we can't demand they act ethically. Not causing destruction on a global scale is good ethics.
He made other comments such as: the science is debatable on climate change. He didn't believe that we are having more extreme weather, or that winters are getting milder. He said even if the climate is changing he didn't think it was because of fossil fuels. The Japan earthquake shifted the Earth on its axis. Doesn't that have anything to do with it? The scientist haven't taken that into consideration.
I acknowledged that yes oil and gas has done a lot for civilization, however we now know that using it is killing our planet. Since we know better so it's time to change the business model. I assured him that yes, the scientists have taken into consideration factors such as the natural wobbles of the earth's axis and even that earthquake event that shifted the earth.
I told him how the carbon fee and dividend would put money in his pocket. I told him how it would spur development and investment in fossil fuel alternatives. Maybe he can't afford an electric car now, but after a few years of a carbon tax he probably can because prices will come down.
We even ended up talking about how the climate was different when dinosaurs were on the earth but it was fine for them. I explained how yes, the death of the dinosaurs and the sequestration of their bodies and plant matter at the time allowed the carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere to decrease to a level that made the planet safe for humans. Dinosaurs turned into fossil fuels, and by unlocking that carbon dioxide from the earth we have thrown the atmosphere, that we humans have enjoyed so much, out of balance. Even if we keep burning fossil fuels some form of life will exist on earth, it just won't be humans.
Still, the only thing that seem to get through to him was the explanation that scientists have determined that the "safe" level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is 350 ppm. We recently exceeded 400 ppm and are adding 2 ppm each year. He used to serve on an Air Resources Board in New York so that was something he could appreciate. A small win!
Despite feeling overwhelmed at his denial and unprepared on where to even start in responding to his denial during a 10 minute car ride, it was still a fine conversation.
"Why do you bother with those people?" my husband asked when I told him about it back at home.
Because it keeps me on my toes. And, we need to convert some of those people we are to win this climate fight.
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